An Interview With Maria Angelova
Authority Magazine Editorial Staff
Be humble. Be resilient.
It feels most comfortable to stick with what we are familiar with. But anyone who has achieved great success will tell you that true growth comes from pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. What are some ways that influential people have pushed themselves out of their comfort zone to grow both personally and professionally? As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Jeff Raz.
Jeff has written three novels inspired by his circus career, collectively called The Circus Trilogy. His latest literary endeavor is a non-fiction title examining a sea change within American Circus — An International Circus Affair details the arrival of a Chinese acrobatic instructor in San Francisco, and how Raz was swept up in what would become the new face of American Circus. Raz has also performed with Cirque du Soliel and on Broadway, co-founded six arts organizations, written 20 plays, directed of dozens of theatrical productions and worked as a global communications consultant.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we start, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your childhood backstory?
My family moved from Long Island to a house three blocks from Kamala Harris’ family in Berkeley. It was 1968, the year after the Summer of Love, and my crew-cut couldn’t grow out fast enough. It took me most of junior high to get comfortable in a city bursting with energy — anti-war demonstrations, the Black Panthers, the Women’s Rights Movement, street theater. Learning to juggle when I was 14 gave me a ticket into this vibrant world, and I have been part of the Bay Area arts community ever since.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Instead of trying to get out of your comfort zone, expand it.”
– Avner Eisenberg (Avner the Eccentric)
Avner is a long-time mentor and his idea of expanding your comfort zone helps me try new things, like writing An International Circus Affair, my first nonfiction book, which meant organizing an intimidating number of interviews and writing in a style that at first felt strange. Expanding my comfort zone let me adjust my self-image to include this new skill, and then embrace my now larger comfort zone. I was also able to use what I know from writing plays and fiction, my old comfort zone, in my new book.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
Training is Bitter: Reflections on Life, Effort, and Acrobatics with Master Trainer Lu Yi written by Lu Yi and Devin Holt.
This book inspired me to write An International Circus Affair: How a Nanjing Acrobat in San Francisco Changed American Circus Forever. Devin and I both trained in acrobatics with Lu Yi. Devin went on to become a journalist and then, during lockdown in 2020, he did over 100 phone interviews with Lu Yi which he then shaped into an amazing book. Reading the life story of someone I had known and revered for 30 years was eye opening — his childhood gathering cigarette butts for money, training with a violent acrobatic master, performing around the world as a cultural representative and eventually becoming the Vice President of Acrobatics for all of China. Then, in 1990, Lu Yi moved to San Francisco and started training people like Devin and me, beginning students who were past acrobatic retirement age in China. Both Devin and Lu Yi’s journeys have inspired me to accept new challenges on stage and on the page.
Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Let’s start with a basic definition so that all of us are on the same page. What does “getting outside of your comfort zone” mean?
As I mentioned, I think of it as expanding your zone of comfort, rather than getting outside of your comfort zone. Putting it this way anticipates that some, strange, scary new thing will, in time, become familiar and comfortable. This “comfort zone” concept, in any form, meshes nicely with Stanford Professor Carol Dweck’s work on “growth mindset” and the concept of lifelong learning.
Can you help articulate a few reasons why it is important to get out of your comfort zone?
It feels important to mention that this interview focuses on people, like me, who have options, people who can make a choice to write in a different style, learn to play banjo or face our unconscious biases. We are not talking about the many people in the world being forced out of their comfort zones by war, economic hardship, abuse, or unprecedented weather.
Comfort zones are often safe and comfortable. They can also be boring, and at times even stifling. Exploring new “zones” can be fun and exciting. It can also be scary and even dangerous. For some people, like me, staying in our comfort zone was never an option, temperamentally and economically, but I image that other people live full, happy lives that, at least from the outside, look very small and safe.
The question you ask me, “why is it important?” is a good one for all of us to ask ourselves, both about getting out of our comfort zones, and about staying in them. For example, after a long conversation, I just recommended that a coaching client stay in her current job for another year, even though she’s itching to go out on her own, because staying in her comfort zone is important because it will give her time to develop skills to make the move out more exciting and less dangerous.
Is it possible to grow without leaving your comfort zone? Can you explain what you mean?
I have trouble imagining someone growing a lot while staying completely comfortable, but comfort zones are vitally important. I’ve lived within ten miles of my childhood home, in my comfort zone, for nearly six decades. The community here, the scenery of the Bay Area, and even the local coffeehouse where I’m writing this answer, have all given me the safety and comfort to go from juggling at Fisherman’s Wharf on my 21st birthday to celebrating my 30th at Sardi’s after the opening of my first show on Broadway. I welcomed my older son into the world on my 40th birthday and starting a school soon after, performed with Cirque du Soleil in front of both my boys, my wife and 75 other family members on my 50th and then turned 60 launching my first book at the Smithsonian in Washington D.C.
On October 19th his year, 2024, I’ll launch my new book with a reading at Club Fugazi in San Francisco, including this excerpt about comfort zones: “When training a new trick, fear is multiplied the moment the safety belt comes off. Lu Yi chose that time carefully and would have spotters in place, including himself. If the trick went wrong, someone would catch the acrobat.
Having a strong support system makes getting out of your comfort zone easier and safer.
Can you share some anecdotes from your personal experience? Can you share a story about a time when you stepped out of your comfort zone and how it helped you grow? How does it feel to take those first difficult steps?
I often find myself on the second or third step out of my comfort zone before I realize what I’m doing. For example, when Cirque du Soliel asked me to play the lead role in their show Corteo, it didn’t seem like much of a stretch because I had over three decades of performing experience. Sure, I’d have to fly in the show — hoisted into the air on almost-invisible cables — which was something I’d never done before — I had been an acrobatic “base,” the big guy who holds flyers up in the air and rides a bike with ten people on him. I am also afraid of heights, which I conveniently ignored until the contract was signed and I was in rehearsal.
The worst part was sitting on a bed attached to four cables which flew me to 30 feet above the stage, and then tipped back and forth. During the rehearsal period, I became a sweaty, sleepless mess, seriously thinking of quitting and going home. Then, on my way to the final dress rehearsal, I took a shortcut through a swanky hotel lobby packed with men in blue suits and boring ties. I thought, “Here’s my choice: learn to fly or become a suit.” This scared me enough to fly on that bed for 500 performances.
Ironically, a few years after I left Cirque du Soleil, I expanded my comfort zone again by putting on a suit and traveling to swanky hotels around the world as a communications and leadership consultant.
What are your “five ways to push past your comfort zone, to grow both personally and professionally”?
- Conveniently ignore your fears until it’s too late (see answer above).
- Take one small, seemingly safe step, and then keep saying “yes.” My gig with Cirque du Soleil started when I met the lead performer during their San Francisco run and he said, “You look like me. I think you could play this part.” I said, “Yes, I think I could.”
- Start calling yourself a “lifelong learner” and then try to act the role. When I found myself in my mid 20s working as a union actor and touring as a circus professional, I decided that I wouldn’t go back to complete my college degree. As the only person in my family for three generations without a PhD or a JD, I promised myself that I would continue reading, growing and learning the rest of my life.
- Be humble. Be resilient.
Humble: When I started writing, I wasn’t thinking about winning a Pulitzer Prize like Colson Whitehead or Barbara Kingsolver, and I haven’t. I have enjoyed the process of learning to write plays and novels — and now non-fiction — and sharing my words with readers.
Resilient: The first director I auditioned for told me that I was a terrible actor who would never work on stage. As I walked out of the theater, I remember thinking, “I’m going to have a long career and this guy’s going to be out of the business.” Instead of being crushed, I used his words to goad myself to get better. - Think of the good you are doing for others instead of your own anxiety.
In 2010, my wife and I started the Medical Clown Project with a six-month pilot program in California Pacific Medical Center’s children’s unit, pediatric ICU, adult long-term care facility and their residential Alzheimer’s center. My medical clown shifts at the hospital were heartbreaking and more exhausting than a two-show day with Cirque du Soleil, but I got myself into the car every morning by thinking about the patients and the staff, and how I could bring them joy.
From your experience or perspective, what are some of the common barriers that keep someone from pushing out of their comfort zone?
Again, we’re talking about those of us who have a big enough comfort zone; having a small comfort zone usually keeps people from wanting to leave what little comfort they have.
One big barrier is fear, of course, and self-image (“I’m not a yoga kinda guy”); voices from the past (“You’ll never be able to sing”); false dichotomies like “suits” vs. “creatives” (see example above); past traumas; not enough support — emotional, financial, educational; lack of opportunities; discrimination in its many forms, etc.
There is a well-known quote attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt that says, “Do something that scares you every day”. What exactly does this mean to you? Is there inherent value in doing something that pushes you out of your comfort zone, even if it does not relate to personal or professional growth? For example, if one is uncomfortable about walking alone at night should they purposely push themselves to do it often for the sake of going beyond their comfort zone? Can you please explain what you mean?
Eleanor Roosevelt did a whole lot of scary and impactful things — she and her husband’s Secretary of Labor Francis Perkins helped change our country for the better (Social Security, for example) — so it surprises me that we’re only now deciding to put a woman in charge. But I don’t think that doing something that scares you every day is a great idea, even if we are only talking about those of us who don’t have scary things done to us every day. I find fear paralyzing rather than activating.
The “every day” part of the quote, though, works for me. Tweak something in your routine every day, like trying a different tea or walking the dog on a different route, to habituate your system to change. Then, when you get to the bigger changes, ask yourself about the risks and the benefits — is the risk of walking alone at night worth the benefit? How might you mitigate that risk?
Having a strong community with good mentors is hugely helpful when you’re spreading your wings — the cliche of a lone cowboy riding off into the great unknown isn’t helpful. Imagine, for example, if I had decided to learn to ride a bike with ten people on me by myself, without Lu Yi’s centuries of Chinese acrobatic knowledge and the support of an entire circus organization. Imagine eleven people in an emergency room.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
A movement to give more people in the world comfort zones, with enough food, shelter, clothing and safety for themselves, their families and their communities. Then giving these people access to exciting options outside of their comfort zones and the support they need to try these options.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Chef José Andrés, with his team at World Central Kitchen, is working hard in places of great need to give people enough good food to survive and have big enough comfort zones to start planning their futures. He and his people must be out of their comfort zones most of the time; everything about meeting Chef Andrés would be out of my comfort zone, from the language gap, my lack of culinary knowledge and my awe at the work he does.
How can our readers follow you online?
https://modernvaudevillepress.com/nanjing/
https://www.facebook.com/jeff.raz.75
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-raz-1b975a9/
www.jeffraz.com
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!